Some indigo tie-dye designs created during Nyananyana workshops (Source: Nyananyana Eco-Fashion)

Clara Simanjuntak is Nyananyana Eco-fashion founder and designer. Based on her personal experience in battling a serious illness, Clara wants to present a better clothing options that are not just better for the environment and the makers but also for the consumers. It has been a learning journey since the conceptualisation in 2011 until presenting her latest collection at Design Orchard today, where she researched on organic materials and dyes as well as ethical and sustainable practices.

In this episode of aNERDspective (our NERD talk show where we converse with amazing friends about their textile adventure and perspectives), we talked to Clara about her journey as she shares more about her latest collection, Tukar Baju, and creating and measuring impacts in your business.

Note: Full chat is available on IG TV and this transcript has been edited for reading format.

Tony Sugiarta (TS): Thank you Clara for dropping by to today’s episode of aNERDspective. How are you doing?

Clara Simanjuntak (CS): Really good, thanks. How are you?

Good. Normally I ask this question at the beginning: how is the COVID situation? Since we are in the same country, in the same city, so we know pretty well the situation over here. It is almost back to normal-ish. So, we are really glad that we are able to go for usual activities, although retails are lower after Christmas, I think.

Yeah, but I think it is already really good, improved from the last time.

As usual, today will be a very casual chit-chat session to learn more about your journey with Nyananyana and, of course, the latest collection that you are coming up with.

Yes, I am wearing it right now.

Cool, nice. The one that will be going up in Design Orchard, am I right?

Yes.

Alright. So, perhaps we will start with a little introduction about who Clara is and your journey leading up to starting up Nyananyana.

Hello, everybody. My name is Clara Simanjuntak, I am from Indonesia. Now, I am based in Singapore. Actually my background is in architecture, I am a trained architect with experience in the field also. But I know many architects who switched to fashion industries.

One of our friends, Jenny of Khaya Heritage, is also an architect.

While I was working as an architect, at that time, I worked in Singapore. Around 2010, I had an illness and it was quite serious. After the treatment, it got better and I went back to work again. I try to have a healthier lifestyle, like choosing organic food. At that time, I also learned that organic fabric or organic clothing also have a similar health impact to the customers who wear them, especially the ones who have skin condition. But generally, it is better for the one who wears it because it is non-toxic, no pesticide residue, etc. 

After I learned about it, I also learned about natural dyes. So, I am really interested and I have a dream to start a fashion brand. At that time, I was still working so I was not really confident in starting it. Around 2016, my husband needed to go back to Indonesia for his work, so we moved back home to Indonesia. That is where I can really focus and can meet all crafters and artisans. That is why I have the confidence to start Nyananyana. 

At that time, I just wanted people to know about organic fabric and also natural dyes. That is the goal, I want it to be more accessible. People said it (organic cotton and natural dyes) was expensive, but that is what I am trying to do.

Let’s debunk the myth: is it really more expensive than regular cotton?

Yes. It is more expensive because it has a better quality and also the producer is not as many as conventional cotton. It is only around 1% of organic cotton compared with the whole cotton industries. That is why it is more expensive, but we have some ways to make it less expensive.

You mentioned that it actually starts with a personal journey because of the illness that you get, then you start researching organic food as well as clothing.

I think it is also part of my gratitude. Because I really recovered and I want to do something with a good impact and also work with the pengrajin (crafters & artisans).

Moving from architecture to fashion, how was the transition?

It is in the same design field. We learn about colours and composition. It is all in the art and design. The difference is the end product and also the medium. But I do still use my old computer program, like AutoCAD to draw clothing because I do not want to learn a new program.

Oh, you can do that too! I was under the impression that AutoCAD is for 3D spaces.

Yes, we can use that. Because I used to do that, so I try what I can. Also in the architecture field, there is also sustainability. So, somewhat it is connected. 

Probably you can share a little bit about your design and creative process when creating a new product, because you are talking about similarities in terms of art and design. If you can share a little bit more about your product design and process, how is the inspiration, etc.?

Mostly I got inspiration from the beauty of nature or the colour itself and the patterns, from older batik. I do make new patterns, so I asked the craftsmen and artisans to make custom stamps. At the same time, I also use what artisans have, what they are really good at, combining with something I design, something newer, more modern. I use both.

So, it is a combination of what they currently have as well as new designs that you asked them to create?

Yes.

Is it easy to create new designs when working with these artisans?

It is about chemistry. It is not because they cannot do it but they are not confident to try something new.

“If I do, we can not meet your expectation,” they said. Even at the start, I said, “this is just a sample and after we see the sample, we will talk about it afterwards.” But they just replied, “no, later you will be disappointed in us.”

It is more of their mindset. For some, I succeeded in persuading them, but some who really do not want to do, then I just buy what they are really good at and what they have. I try to support.

After you got your design, where do you get all your materials when you are doing your sourcing?

For now, it is all from Indonesia.

Is there any specific part of Indonesia?

Along Java Island. So, I source for the ethical factories, hand-weave, and batik artisans. Now I also do tie-dye, eco-print, and hand-weave. For hand-weaving, I buy the fabric, like silk hand-weave, (and some) very precious and unique fabric, like pineapple silk hand-weave.

Is it from Java as well?

Yes, but now it is really hard to find. They do not make it anymore because there is less demand.

What do people use it for normally, for clothes?

Normally, it is for home décor. But at that time, I asked for softer fibers for clothing and they had it. Too bad, for now they do not produce it anymore. Maybe next time when I can order a bigger quantity, maybe I can ask them to make it again.

So, all your materials are from Indonesia, from Java mainly?

Yes.

When you are working with these artisans and producers, do you look for a certain criteria? Because you are running a sustainable fashion brand, what are the different criteria that you look for when you are sourcing for all these producers or artisans?

For artisans, I look for the one that uses natural dyes, (and to see their) supply chain, such as if they grow it nearby, harvest it in the same area and they dye it there. I really like that kind of setting, it is like minimising the carbon footprint. Sometimes, the villagers have other jobs like farming. So, sometimes when I order tie dye, they will do the tie dye after work (or in-between tasks).

For the fabrics, I use the ones from the factory (machine-woven), not hand-weave. I source the ones that have certification, like organic certification (GOTS, OEKO-TEX), recycle certification. Cooperatives are resourceful and open about how they produce the fabric. I also look for the end of roll, textile waste. I source it from the factories.

Do you mean you buy the textile waste?

Yes, but it is actually the end of the roll. The machine is rolling and they will have the waste of maybe 10 meters or so and I just buy it. It is pre-consumer waste.

You incorporated it to the design?

Yes, but the product is just like regular fabric. It is the one that buyers do not want to buy, so I just buy it.

I think I am getting ahead on myself. If you can go back a little bit, when do you start Nyananyana?

I did the research in 2011. At that time, it was really hard to find all the suppliers and artisans. It is not like now, we have Instagram and we just have to type all the texts and you will find it. At that time, it was very stressful, I only worked with one batik artisan. He is the one who really wants to explore all the new designs even though he just started up in doing it. I am really grateful for the artisans that I met then.

I started Nyananyana in 2017, in Jakarta. I got the opportunity. I was invited to join a social enterprise incubation. At that time, I am not familiar with social enterprise, but after I joined the 6-month incubation, I learnt about impact, that it is measurable. Even though I am focusing on the environment, actually there are also people whom we need to think about when talking about the impact. That is why I am really grateful (for the incubation experience with raiSE).

raiSE in Singapore?

In Jakarta. It was like a validation about my business model that I was just starting up. When I go back to Singapore in 2019, that is where I also immediately registered the company because I already know the business plan, target, and the impact that I want to achieve. 

If you can share a little bit more about product offerings that you have?

I started with clothing in Indonesia. I was really looking for the “perfect” product, but there is no such thing. I wasted resources (not only time, but also capital) doing sampling. But after a few years, I know that we do not have to produce a perfect product or, at that time, I felt that I need to have something that’s different from others. But, there is nothing new under the sun.

I try to produce what I can. When I meet the one who can make a men’s tie, I produce ties. When I meet someone who can produce accessories like earrings, necklaces, I do it.

Also for all batik patterns and tie dyes, it starts slowly from accessories and is now back to producing clothing collections.

I was so excited, I saw on your Instagram that you have a Tukar Baju collection and we have this chat to talk more about it. If you can talk a little bit more about this latest collection.

It is a funny part of saying that we are an eco-friendly and sustainable fashion brand, but somewhat we are stopping people from buying.

I have this hierarchy chart. People said, “Why do you campaign like this when you are selling clothes?”

This is, I think, how to answer that. So, Tukar Baju means changing clothes in English. It is a collection featuring reversible, multiwear, and interchangeable panels. We are playing with the panels. So, it is a panel that you can put on your tops or pants. The panel has two sides. The good thing about natural dyes stuff is that they are harmonious, so if you change the colour even the pattern, I think most of them are harmonious to each other.

Do you sell that separately as a top, or pants as well as the panel?

Yes, slowly launching it. We try to sell a set of panels with the top. Maybe, with the change of season, we can explore more with (other) materials. We will launch it one by one.

So, the one that is currently out is similar with the top they are currently wearing, is that?

Yes, the top and the panel.

There are really a lot of options. So, you have batik, like the one you are wearing, eco-print, tie dye, lurik, and ikat.

That is what I am trying to showcase. This is connected to a question that you asked earlier, is it really expensive?

When we want to have the whole top of a natural dye ikat, or tenun, it will cost a lot. This one is only a panel and it has a zero waste pattern. This also makes precious fabrics affordable and acceptable. 

It has a lot of options and interchangeable. I am really excited for the whole collection. 

This is what I am going to ask you as a man. This is only women’s wear. What do you think about men wearing something like this concept? 

Well, that depends on the man. I am one of those few who wear kain panjang, right? 

Yeah, your signature look. 

So I do experiment with drapery and a more funky style. I really like the idea of using that panel as an accent so it is a design and that you can experiment with. But, that could be something that is too much for most men where they are looking for something that is easy to wear and with a minimalistic design. So maybe not overly crazy patterned pieces. 

Ah, yeah because I am thinking of doing the collection for men to buy. Just wondering.

What does your husband say?

He says it is really nice for women, but for him, maybe it is the same as what you mentioned earlier, (he is) looking for something that is not really attracting people. But how to show all the nice fabric but not attracting people. We need to think about it. 

We do carry some men’s stuff (at aNERDstore). The ones that tend to do well are the plain shirt with things such as Ulos stripes or accents. So I was thinking maybe the stripes can be removable and be made into a belt or a tie. The majority is a plain design and then you have that accent if you want something more funky, instead of a whole panel. 

Thank you. Great feedback.

Moving from design, you have been definitely incorporating a lot of sustainability in your processes. If you can share a little bit about what are some of the steps that you have done in terms of ensuring sustainability?

The one that I mentioned earlier, I really consider certifications. I also work with all the artisans and (when) I know them, I will ask about their working conditions if I am not able to go there. For some, I will go directly to their places but if I am not able to go, I will ask them about the working conditions and how they operate. Also, if they can take pictures of the process and also how they dispose of all the leftovers. Some of them will take pictures. It is really good to have the ones that understand us. 

Sometimes, I initiate some dialogues with them: what if you do certification? First, they are not really familiar with certifications. Secondly, maybe they cannot afford to pay and the thirdly, not all customers ask for it so why should they do it. That is why if I met the artisans, I am not looking for certification anymore, but (to ask questions to understand) how they do their production. Sometimes I ask about the living conditions of all the staff there, if they are staying in, something that is really detailed. 

They will ask why I asked about that, if they are feeding well or not. I do that because I am looking for the ethical side (of the production). What I find is really good. In Indonesia, mostly, they are like family so they look out for each other. They also think about the well-being of the staff. 

I am not looking for certification anymore, but (to ask questions to understand) how they do their production.

That is nice. I am just trying to figure out what the reaction is gonna be, are they defensive or welcoming when you come and ask these questions.

Sometimes, they are really shocked. They exclaimed that it is impossible for them to do something really bad to their own man, or something like that. It is not defensive. They find it sad when I tell them that overseas, the fashion industry is not as good as in Indonesia, especially the ethical part. They treat the people or the workers badly. I tell them about the working conditions in other places and that is why I asked. 

Have you ever introduced a practice, for example, maybe they can treat the waste better in whatever ways. How are they taking all these suggestions of sustainable practices?

Until now, because I work with natural dyers, how they do the treatment is already better. So that is why it is nice to pick natural dyes at the start. It is better than the synthetic dyes, I do not have to train them to do that. 

It is nice. I really like that the makers are really open to it and their reactions when you asked about all these different details about working conditions and all. To touch a little bit on certifications, partly is the know-hows and the monetary as you mentioned. 

For example, with a lot of batik artisans, there was this period where, even until now, they encourage people to register, that it is Batik Asli, batik cap or batik tulis. I think it is the same concern as well. Other than those know-hows, is the bureaucracy to get the certification. It is only the bigger factories that manage to do it and for the smaller artisans, if they are just selling to the regular customers, not a lot of people ask in such a great detail, so they (ed.: the artisans) will just ignore them. 

You have been in the industry for a while and you did some courses as well. What are the uprising trends that you see in the sustainable fashion business?

There is definitely an increase in awareness. If I am talking about the Indonesian eco-fashion brands, there is an uprising in young brands. For the global industry, I think it is also towards that. I think bigger brands also work with artisans. They go to the small villages, they go to India, they go to Indonesia and they are looking for more ethical producers. Even the mainstream bigger brands, they are looking for ways to make sustainable lines. That is why I think it is really good to see all the improvement, all the development. 

Probably my next follow-up question is how can consumers differentiate between genuine sustainable line versus greenwashing messages?

The easiest way is to see the label: what is inside your clothing, the materials and if they still have polyester or something mixed, then it is probably green washing. Sometimes the customer needs to find the story behind the line or the brand. If it is just when a new season is changing and there is a sustainable line, with no other information about it, they should ask for more information.

The easiest way is to see the label: what is inside your clothing, if they still have polyester or something mixed, then it is probably green washing. 

Definitely, because in the world of the internet and people are living off social media, they are easily influenced and there are just a lot of messages that are going around . As a consumer, we need to be able to filter whether it is a greenwashing message or genuine sustainable messages. 

Is there any point that you feel like giving up? If you can share a little bit more about that? 

Yes. That is when I am looking for the tailors or the seamstress. It is a never ending journey. One time, I did sampling with 13 tailor or seamstress but still it is not up to the expectation. 

Is that to do a prototype or to do the production?

The prototype is mostly good at the prototyping stage. But the production is really different. So that is why I stopped doing clothing last time. I was taking a break and now, thank God, I met better seamstresses. Now, everybody is trying to get back on their feet after last year. So, maybe the last time, they did not want to take our order because it was too low, now they are willing to work with us. 

Those are based in Jakarta?

Some in Jakarta. There are also (some) in Central Java and East Java.

How do you communicate your designs? Now you cannot visit them directly, right? 

It is all long distance. Sometimes, it is challenging. There is a lot of miscommunication but the good thing is some of the seamstresses already know how to Zoom. That is why it is really easy to talk about that now, we can share screens, share the drawing. Now, it is a totally different era, where we can do better. 

So I believe they are younger artisans and the community is growing as well. Any other thing that you would find challenging?

Personally, I am also taking care of my children, so finding the time to work (is challenging). It is not that I can find the ideal time to focus and to work. There is always interruption and distraction. That happened. Now that I am quite used to it, but I hope as they grow bigger, I can have more time to focus on my work. 

It is something that I still cannot do for myself. I need to dedicate time to finish a task. I keep on saying that managing a store is not my strong suit because when there is a customer, it breaks my concentration and I cannot go back to the work I was doing. 

It needs time to train your mind.. but I am not recommending it.*laughter*  

I was about to ask if you have any tips, to get right back in after all the distraction? 

Just lower our expectations and do things slowly. 

We talked with each other for a while and I (knew) the challenges that you have and all the different perspectives. I want to ask a little bit more about your perspectives in terms of pivoting and finding suitable business models. Why do you choose the model of a social enterprise versus a regular company?

I am not really pivoting because I was just a start up. I started with all the green statements, all the vision and mission for a better option in the fashion industry. At that time, I was just talking about all the environmental benefits or something, but actually that is social enterprise. That is why I registered to the Centre for Social Enterprise, Singapore.

When I registered, I needed to present and to show the business model. I also had some dialogue with them that it is true that I am a social enterprise. I work with ethical factories. I work with better products for the environment, but let’s not just stop there, let’s think about what further impact you can give. That is why I am always looking for new channels in Singapore. What can I do to give a better impact in Singapore? That is why I do workshops, educate and share about eco-fashion, about the richness of natural dyes or organic fabric. That is what I do in Singapore. I do not know if the company can grow, maybe not in the near future, but I do really want it to grow and maybe I can work with all the beneficiaries. 

Definitely you want to grow but definitely at a comfortable pace and at the right stages.

A lot of people associate social enterprise as not-for-profit or NGOs. How do you find them (ed.: the notion of being equated to a not-for-profit or NGO)? 

That is why when we are introducing ourselves as a social enterprise, we (said that we) do look for profit. We have a business model and we sell something. We are not just doing charity. We do have good quality products that we can offer to everybody and there is a message inside the product.

On the other spectrum, there are some people who do business and incorporate all these sustainability factors or principles in my day-to-day (operations), but they prefer not to shout about it, outright say that we are “Social Enterprise”. Are there pros and cons? It is like the “Robin Hood” kind of situation that they want to help without shouting it or making too much of a fuss about it. 

Why? *laughter* I think for now because of the awareness, people are more aware about social justice and the environment, I think that there is no harm in writing it. Even though maybe it is not your main, but you can say what you have done for the people and environment. I think it is a good winning point for your company or your brand.

I also think that it would be more beneficial in terms of building and growing the community, especially among the different players that they are doing sustainable practices. Probably we can share resources, in terms of education, awareness and so on. 

Yes, collaboration.

Good discussion. Before we close off, what are some of the ongoing projects or something that you are working on that we can look forward to from Nyananyana? 

The clothing collection, Tukar Baju. I have a plan to develop it and make it as a Less Waste campaign. Maybe later I can do rental of the panels or maybe a swap. Now, sometimes, they feel that the swap is not fair, they swap this and they get something else. For this one, it is really fair. 

For the workshop, I am planning to introduce the panels, so maybe they do the tie-dye and make it as their own panels. After doing the tie-dye, they will proudly wear their workshop result (ed.: creations). It is not only tie-dye but maybe sashiko stitching too. There are many things that we can do with this in the workshop. 

Also, I want to offer customisation. For example, I have many batik from my late mother, so sometimes I want to wear the precious batik but I do not know how to wear it. If we create it in the panel, we can wear it and it is really close to us. You can use it daily. Maybe in the future, I would like to invite people who want to do the custom with their own fabric that has nostalgic value, I really like to do that too.

It looks like a lot of exciting stuff coming up. In the long run, what are your hopes for Nyananyana? 

I hope that we still can create awareness through our products and also through our workshop. Even though we do this Tukar Baju (clothes-swapping) collection or the less waste campaign, we do also sell other collections that are definitely of good quality. This year, we got an opportunity to be one of the brands in Design Orchard. So, I am really grateful that we have a good start this year and we would like to learn from the mentors and from the other brands. We are looking forward to learning and collaborating. 

We are definitely looking forward to more sharing as well, as Nyananyana grows. Thank you so much once again Clara for sharing, really great sharing.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of aNERDspective. Check out the previous episode on IGTV and our gallery and store if you would like a piece of Indonesia for your home or wardrobe. You may also check out  Nyananyana Eco-Fashion’s Instagram for the latest Nyananyana collection.

Photo credit: Nyananyana Eco-Fashion, unless stated otherwise.