Batik cloth with natural dyes from mango leaves, indigo leaves, ceriops bark and jelawe fruit peel.

Indira Cestra is a natural dye enthusiast who loves to explore all things naturally colourful, including plants, mud, soil and stone. Indira experiments on dye extraction as well as the application of these dyes across various surface design techniques, on different media, including leather and barkcloth. 

In this episode of aNERDspective (our NERD talk show where we converse with amazing friends about their textile adventure and perspectives), we talked to Indira about her dyeing experiments and her community Kreativita Bina Hasta to encourage more people to appreciate natural dyes and the environment. Enjoy the interview and let us know what do you like about natural dyes.

Note: Full video in Bahasa Indonesia is available on IG TV and this translation of the transcript has been edited for reading format.

Tony Sugiarta (TS): We are talking to Indira Cestra, owner of the brand Cestra, and also co-founder of Kreativita Bina Hasta community and the brand Nawanthi Indonesia.

Indira is a natural dye enthusiast. As we know it, natural dyes for textile mainly come from plants. But Indira did some experiment with various sources, including soil and stones. Let’s start our conversation with, perhaps, an introduction of yourself?

Indira Cestra Soerojo (ICS): My name is Indira, and I prefer to be called a natural dye enthusiast than an artisan as I am still learning about it. When we talk about textile arts, it can never be separated from colours and dyes, be it synthetic or natural dyes, and I happen to concentrate more on natural dyes. We are also talking about culture, tradition, and heritage. The natural colours that I am exploring are passed down from our Indonesian ancestors. Indonesia’s nature has so much to provide for us to live and to benefit economically and it is just right that we pay our respect to nature. 

My natural dye journey actually is based on the community that I built with one of my friends, Diana, in 2014. So this year is our 6th year. From all the activities that we do, including textile arts, we use a variety of dyes up until about 3 to 3.5 years ago when my focus turns to natural dyes. When I first learnt about natural dyes, it started from plants. Slowly, I get curious and I love to read history books. Then, I learnt that the oldest cave painting was found in Leang Bulu Sipong in Southern Sulawesi. The research was publicly released in collaboration with Griffith University in Australia. From the research on the rock that was attached to an animal painting, they found that it is a layer of lime that has been attached for around 44,000 years. Prior, I thought that the oldest cave painting could be in Brazil, France or Argentina. Since I now know that it is in Indonesia, I am so amazed and proud about it. That got me thinking that natural pigments from soil and stones are much stronger, evidenced by old cave painting. That sparked my exploration with stones and soil. 

There is a unique chemical reaction in nature. The oxidation process causes rocks to contain iron metal content with varying colours that we call ‘ochre’. So there’s red, yellow, black as well as brown ochre. From soil, as what we have learnt in geology class, there are various layers of soil in Indonesia. There are alluvial soils, volcanic soils, peat soils. We have about 10 types of soils and all of them can be used as natural dyes. 

About two years later, I went to a textile exhibition in Jakarta and I met someone who is an heir of a batik maker from Minang. In the past, there was a batik made from clay which is almost extinct. They mentioned how difficult for their mother to research, trial and error, learn the craft in Yogya until she finally succeeds. So we now have Batik with clay natural dyes. I believe they are the only one. 

 

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TS: So the dyes are not just for textiles, but for various media as well.

ICS: Yes, for various media. So dyes from plants, stones, and soil can be used on various media, not just textile. I have done some experiments with various media and it is so fun. I will show some examples. 

[Indira is showing some rocks with natural pigments from 08:56, including, in order, rock with red ochre, rock with yellow ochre, broken red ochre rock, ground red ochre, ground yellow-orange ochre, soda light rock]

TS: It is because of the mineral content, right? 

ICS: From the mineral content and also from the oxidation process in nature. Not all rocks contain minerals, but they can be used as dyes.

TS: There is a question [from the live audience], where did you get the stones from?

ICS: Actually I live in a mountainous area, but not as many as in other areas outside where I am living now. I befriend someone on social media, a stone entrepreneur in Kebumen. One day, I enquired about buying some stones. I bought bracelet but he sent me many stones and I was so surprised. 

So actually, there is a National Park in Kebumen. Kebumen is a place where two continental plates meet and hence there is a variety of (beautiful) rocks there. Many of my rocks are from Kebumen and I have to process them. Of course, there is a technique to properly grind them into powder. You need to wear a safety goggle to prevent the fragments from hitting the eyes.

I tried applying them on tree barks and textiles. I also used hand-block print technique from India which they apply the dyes directly on to the stamp, unlike batik which we stamp the resist in the form of wax. What’s unique in India is that they have about 300 plants for natural dyes that are still in use even until today. 

In Indonesia, we have about 150 plant varieties and mostly for batik. Although, not necessarily only for batik, with the right concentrate, the dyes can also be used for painting or a block print like in India, which have not been explored.

TS: That is a direct surface contact technique?

ICS: Yes, direct contact to the surface. I tried to a colour palette from plants and stones for painting. There is white, red, blue, yellow, green and black. The green is from seaweed that I received as a gift. These are stranded seaweed that have been washed ashore and dried. The yellow is from turmeric. If it is from stones, it will be a darker shade.

TS: Can you explain the differences between colour extraction from soil and stones versus from plants? 

ICS: For plants, they are more or less the same, to be extracted by boiling. For example, avocado seeds need to be boiled first for a certain time to extract the dyes. After filtration, we can then dip the cloth. Alternatively, we can mix with other components, for painting purposes. 

For rocks or soil, it must be thoroughly cleaned before pounding it into a fine powder. After which we add some kind of thickener such as sap from an acacia tree, not just water. For rocks, you can also rub directly onto the medium. We dip in a little bit of water, rub it (on the medium) until the dyes are out. These are the stones that I picked up from the side of the road

[Indira showed the different types of rocks and the corresponding colours from 18:11 – 18:37]

TS: Are all these stones found on the road side?

ICS: Funny story. I asked my friends in the USA, Europe and Australia, how do they get started? They said that you should explore nature. Try going outside and observe the land around you, that’s a huge natural dye source, from the soil to stones. 

I got to know an American painter Melissa Dickenson who started with acrylic paint and made a switch to natural dyes. She treks and climbs cliffs with a hammer and such. She asked, “you take a look at my painting before and after using natural dyes, how do you feel?” “It’s more alive,” I replied.

There is Meghan Jackson from New Zealand who specialises in Earth pigments. There is Karen Vaughan who really studies the soil. She made a soil catalogue and went for an apprenticeship. As we can see, from the chemistry in nature, they can transform into a beautiful art. I hope, once the pandemic is over, I can teach and share, especially to the painters who use natural dyes. We heard a lot about people who use natural dyes on textiles in Indonesia. For canvas painting, I reckon not so much.

TS: I would say mostly are cold dyes?

ICS: Yes, mostly are cold dyes. Indeed there are many kinds of natural dyes. There are dyes that require warm water, there are some that require cold water. For a painting, it is in the form of a watercolour slab that we can dissolve with a little water.

Also, I want to show the dyes from plants, the colours are amazing, aren’t they? Regardless of dip-dye or painting, the results are amazing. I have a block print using soil. Soil is the most sustainable natural dye source. We can throw them back if it is in excess and does not pollute the environment. It is also lightfast when exposed to sunlight. That’s what piques my interest. Why, with such an abundance in Indonesia, don’t we explore?

TS: Yes, that’s right. For painting, must the colour be fixed or you can use it right away?

ICS: For painting, no fixation is required. The colour is fixed before we apply them on canvas or paper. Interestingly, I have a program with my community to teach children in the village. The potential of natural dyes in the village is huge. It means that these kids do not need to travel far to learn. They can do it from the front yard and that’s fun for them. They love drawing and colouring competitions. Unfortunately, due to the pandemic, the program needs to be postponed.  

TS: Yes, that’s right, we can introduce natural dyes to children from an early stage.

ICS: I have started those classes since two years ago. Other than natural dyes, I also made natural water colour and now I am making crayon that can be used by children.

Coincidentally, in January 2020, the community (Kreativita Bina Hasta) and I, went to Chiang Mai, Thailand, invited by Mataya Arts & Heritage, a non-profit organisation who focuses on arts, culture and heritage, to attend The Umbrella Festival. We taught natural dyes on bark cloth for children. Surprisingly, it was very well-received. The mothers asked about the bark cloths and the kids drew on them. They were elated. I also did an eco-print on bark cloth. The colours stick very well.

Inspired by the response, the team and I were thinking about exploring the natural dyes in Thailand, thinking that most plants in South East Asia would be similar. I then came across two artists, one from Thailand, Suwanya and another in Singapore wildd.sg. They do it on paper. As I started with textiles, I tend to explore dyes for textiles. 

TS: Yes, it is good to introduce that concept to children. Do you have any tips for (adult) beginners who want to learn about natural dyes? How do we start? 

ICS: First, we do not need to go far, let’s start from our kitchen. We can use our kitchen waste, such as onion skins. Onion skins give a beautiful golden colour. So, after you cook or eat a fruit, try to crush or apply it on your skin and to see if there is any pigment. Very simple.

Then (ed.: after you learn to identify the source of colours), for dip-dyeing, you boil the source. For painting, the extraction is slightly different versus dyes for dip-dyeing. You need to boil the soil and stones for a longer time. This shouldn’t deter your from experimenting. On the contrary, it is fun.

TS:  We tend to read and have an information overload. We become too overwhelmed first and we don’t start with the hands-on exploration.

ICS: Yes, just start small from the kitchen.

TS: Yes, that’s great advice.

ICS: That’s how I started. Honestly, I would like to create a colour chart from natural dyes. If you recall, when we were young, we often referred to colours, for example, as merah jambu (rose guava pink) or kuning kunyit (turmeric yellow). Slowly, these knowledge fades and the kids now are not familiar with this naming. 

I saw that children overseas are encouraged to be close to nature, to explore. Hence, the “western” colour chart could be very specific. For example, the colour red can be a crimson red, wine red, so many. 

In Indonesia, we are not like that and that’s a pity. If they are taught since young, they will carry it on when they grow up and that’s our homework.

TS: What’s the progress so far in building that colour chart?

ICS: Not much, but I try to get a new color every month, either in extract form or in watercolours slab form. I have the most basic colours. The important colours are already there, red, blue, yellow, black and white. They are ready and can be mixed.

For me, this is fun. The more we explore, the more we will discover new things. 

TS: Are there any surprising colour sources? For example, the colour comes out differently from the actual source?

ICS: Yes, there are. There is this one stone that is jet black but when I pound, the colour turns green. It turns pale when I use it to paint with a brush. There are plenty of surprises, the colours turn out not as the original colour or as expected. Another example is the avocado seeds, they give pretty pink colours. 

 

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TS: You mentioned about a community. Could you please share about it and what are the activities?

ICS: The community that we, Diana and I, founded is Kreativita Bina Hasta. It was established on 30 April 2014 with our first workshop in Jakarta. This community is based on textile research and, hence, we learnt the different textile techniques. These techniques vary across Indonesia and we want to develop what’s passed down from our ancestors. We try to incorporate modernity to appeal to the younger crowd.

In the third year, we organised our first exhibition in Taman Ismail Marzuki compound in 2017 and we set up a mini exhibition in Galeri Rumah Jawa in Jakarta.

In 2018, we started a textile trip to learn about different textile techniques from other regions. In 2018, we went to Yogyakarta and Solo. In Yogyakarta, we went to Tegel Kunci (a tile maker) factory to see the ancient motifs from up-close. These motifs could be applied on fabrics. From there, we went to see a ceramic workshop and draw the parallel with textile-making that it is a long and tedious process. We can see the ‘souls’, not a factory made. The craftsmanship, sweat and plenty of stories are poured onto the work. 

In 2019, possibly the busiest year for the community yet. We received an accolade from Mangkunegara IX at the Mangkunegaran Palace in Surakarta for a community who works in the field of textile and culture preservation. We then organised an exhibition in the Textile Museum in Jakarta at the same year.

We then continued on a trip to India to learn hand-block print technique. A lot of people asked why we have to go all the way to India. Interestingly, India has around 300 plants in which the majority are still used as textile dyes. As I mentioned (with hand-block printing), we know about batik cap, which require wax as dye-resist. Block printing is direct printing and the result is very strong and does not fade. The process, from A to Z, is done manually by hand. That’s brilliant. 

After we returned, we were active with the Indonesia Umbrella Festival, organised by Mataya Arts and Heritage, helmed by Heru Prasetya. We planned a program for 2020 but due to the pandemic, we have not proceeded.

TS: How was the response (ed.: to the community) so far?

ICS: So far, we do not restrict our workshops only for members but they are open to the public. They have been positive, i.e. they are happy with the workshops that we provide. We do not restrict what our members want to concentrate on. We try to organise an exhibition yearly to showcase the works from our participants. Of course, we hope, through this community, members can collaborate (to build a brand, or to execute a project, etc). Collaboration is important for us.

In relation to natural dyes is sustainability. We hope that our members can be more responsible in what they produce. For example, I am not against synthetic dyes. However, we want members to think and minimise the impact to the environment. For example, to filter the waste so the water that’s released into the environment is clear. As long as they are responsible for the environment, that’s very important.

TS: What are on your wish lists to promote Indonesian natural dyes?

ICS: Frankly, it relates to all my dreams but I am far from achieving them. So far, I just explore and post them on social media with the hope that someone would be inspired to explore natural dyes. 

Also, through the workshop and talk show by the community, we can spread the word and interest on natural dyes. Recently, with a couple of friends in the community and managed by Sekar Kawung, we started a digital platform named Nawanthi Indonesia, which could be a platform to communicate and to promote all the sustainable art products.

For myself, I want to introduce natural dyes to children. I think that it is very important and crucial. These children are the future and they are the guardian of the legacy that we pass on to them. Hopefully the pandemic will be over soon so I can teach at the village.

TS: Finally, before we end, what’s next from you?

ICS: I am in discussion with a painter in Bali, Mas Widi, with Mbak Kiki from Sekar Kawung. I will make the natural paint and Mas Widi will paint with them. That’s the top on the pipeline. I was also approached to sell natural dye watercolour sets in a gallery in Ubud. Hopefully, with that, there will be more eyeballs for the application of natural dyes as a paint. So far, these two. We can’t do much, so it is time to explore.

TS: That’s right. It’s time to explore and experiment and you can see Indira’s progress on Instagram. Any last words for your fans? 

ICS: As I mentioned. Let’s explore together what Indonesia has to offer so as to keep our tradition. We all have a role to play. That would be it, a simple invitation.

TS: Yes, to the power of community. We shall together discuss and exchange ideas to develop natural dyes.

ICS: Thank you very much.

TS: Thank you again everyone and sorry for the technical error. Stay tuned to @indiracestra and @aNERDgallery. If you like this interview, you can check out the previous sessions on IGTV. Thank you, see you soon.

P.S. Indira’s watercolour set is available for order. You may contact Indira via her Instagram DM.